Hi Dokie,
let me first say…I cant think of anyone better suited to recreating default hair, but I am still undecided whether this ‘upgrade’ is necessary.
I dont know much about the technical side of things so would rely on those who know.
Is this upgrade necessary on a technical level as we usher in the new client or is this purely an aesthetics thing?
Do we have any examples pics of the current default hair and your ‘new hair’ using the new client so we can compare?
Thank you
Hi Judas : )
At first it’s an aesthetics upgrade. I think even when the new client comes out, I am assuming the PBR pipeline won’t be introduced straight away- I am unsure what the timeline looks like in terms of that stuff.
This is the current difference between the hair in the current client.
I won’t just be making the GLBs, I’ll ensure that I’m keeping the additional baked textures, FBX files and blend file in case they need to be used for the new explorer or anything in the distant future.
This means that when DCL do bring in a PBR pipeline on their stuff, it could look something similar to this and this (I can’t say that it will look EXACTLY like this but something similar as in every engine texture maps will interact slightly differently so please keep that in mind!)
I hope this clears up any concerns you had and feel free to ask anything else : )
Thanks Doki,
There is a marked difference between the hair you shared. Looks soo much better imo.
First impressions do matter and I feel the expectation of ‘first timers’ to DCL is probably a little higher than is available atm. Not only do we have an opportunity to do something about that we also support a creator who is active in the community so…
…Voted YES. 
However, I hope there is an option for those who prefer the current hairstyle to keep using it.
Thank you for that.
I am actively asking about keeping around the previous hair but it’s a lot of waiting. If it’s rejected I can always put through a canny request with the support of people who wanted both.
I agree with @CheddarQueso. $15,000 is a lot of money. I agree with more choices for poc, so if done in another proposal I would vote for that at a fair price. I agree with Jeremy as far as not wanting his favorite hair changed. I enjoyed some of our default wearables as well that have now been changed or updated and now my favorite default clothes I don’t even like at all. With that being said I would vote no at least for now. If Walt Disney would have hired artist at full cost in the beginning Disneyland would not exist. I don’t believe we are at a point of bringing in enough money to afford this right now. I wore the default hair for 2 years before getting to buy any hair. I also believe our community is very giving and yes some of this is because Doki sent some extras our way. In my opinion we cant afford this as of right now.
I have commented about Jeremy’s concern multiple times- there’s lots of different ways that we can still try to have both be it through a canny request or something else.
As for the cost, I understand it may rub some people the wrong way but I simply charged exactly what I charged any other client in the space for hair- which overall comes to 2.29% of the quartley budget in this category. I put my whole into my hair and crafting my space and always go above and beyond and I’ll be making sure that the cost is worth it and more and nothing less.
Thanks for your insight.
Doki, I understand, but we are not seeking to hire someone to fix our hair. You are seeking a grant and in doing so trying to charge us what you would charge any one person at your base price. So that would be like getting 34 clients at your base pay. Usually when a person orders bulk items there is a large discount involved. We can do a poll to see what other creators would charge to do the same job. As for the other 4 poc hair that you spoke about I would be willing to vote yes to your base pay amount as I want there to be more choices for other hair types. So maybe if you can refigure your pricing and give a much better deal I would be more willing to vote yes. Plus you are redoing something we already have in place and are not coming up with 34 brand new designs. Because you would be getting 38 guaranteed jobs. POC meaning person of color. Same as going out there and finding 38 people who wants to hire you for base hair in one day. Come back with a better offer please.
I honestly don’t understand why people are so hesitant to improve Decentraland’s default looks. A strong first impression for new players, with appealing character designs, could significantly boost player retention, along with the upcoming new client. Doki is undoubtedly qualified for this task, and someone needs to take the initiative.
To our community, if this was truly your money would you just throw it away without researching and getting a fair price? This is an insane amount of money for a 3 month period and if we don’t start trying to negotiate better deals on things we were not seeking in the first place how do you expect to have any money for the future when something that will truly impact the platform comes along? I love Doki creations as much as the next person. But, charging us full price for a guaranteed 38 jobs is what we are being charged. This seems and feels like being taken advantage of.
Has the community seen sketches of or examples of the POC hairstyles? Have we discussed, as a community which hairstyles we would like and how they are representative of our global POC community? What research or discussions have we had about revamping our hair diversity? I think a better option is to decide these things as a community and put it out as a bidding and tendering proposal that comes from within the user base and DAO participants, along with public discussion with foundation, especially our art director.
I haven’t decided what hairstyles to do yet. I’m waiting to see if the proposal goes through first and then if it does, I’ll be inviting a discussion within the community while updating designs in the DAO Discord.
I thought that non-platform grants were frozen? There are so many bugs… none of which paying $15,000 for hair will fix.
Doki hair is great and Doki would probably be one of the more qualified individuals to do the hair but how needed is it right now?
While there is a fair argument that first impression is everything if my hair looks amazing but then I get the raveglitch what impression is there really?
If I go to client and then suddenly “the unity renderer doesn’t exist” what do i care how good my hair looked if the game is constantly causing problems?
If I hire Doki for one hair wearable I will probably expect to pay the base price for one. If I approached with a plan to release 38 new hair styles and was quoted not one dollar of a discount in comparison to the base price I’d find someone else.
I know that an easy response is “You won’t find a better creator for DCL hair” and that may be true but I’d expect a discount for a bulk order.
While Decentraland doesn’t need income (per the Foundation) and they got millions to throw at us I think a lot of us are losing focus for what is needed vs what we want.
Doki wants to upgrade the wearables and it is stated that other users should want this, under the argument that the platform needs the upgrade.
Hair is not breaking the platform. Bugs are.
This doesnt mean that I wouldn’t like to see the hair upgraded. I just think that there are more important platform issues that if we are willing to spend 15,000 on hair then I would like to see the DAO/Foundation/Voters/Community drop 100x that ammount (1.5 million) on some real platform improvements.
Since DCL doesnt need income afterall…
If one person wants to keep their hair, that is enough to ensure that old hair styles should be kept because surely that is not the only person that feels this way, it’s just the only person that spoke up. This means that the base hairstyles will double as a result.
There are a number of examples of grants similar to this one being passed in the Platform category.
I don’t see 15k as an outrageous sum at all; it’s a fair exchange for effort and exceptional craft.
I like your respectful approach and the fact you’re not throwing shade. The last thing we need is someone else doing it for 8k.
I believe this qualifies as a platform grant for several reasons, and voting ‘no’ because the link with the platform isn’t clear seems unwarranted. We could let the grant squad or DAO decide later.
Additionally, Doki’s collaboration with Shibu and the fact she have been recommended to create this grant lend legitimacy in terms of integration with current processes and teams, making it a platform grant.
I’m not the best with words so thank you for saying this in a coherent way I wouldn’t be able ever be able to say myself without an unnecessary amount of words and rambling.
Respectfully, who determines what a fair value is? Who makes the decision on what someone’s time/effort/creativity, etc. is worth? I do not think the amount is overvalued especially for someone who has proven their craft, desires to improve their craft and will continue to contribute toward DCL in a positive way.
Hey @Doki ! While I do think the base hair needs to be reworked, i believe that 400 per hair is a bit too much, especially at a time when we’re trying to cut expenses. Was looking around in the roblox discord and stumbled upon your commission rate there. The only difference between Roblox and Decentraland is a slightly lower tris limit and weightpainting which tbf you can transfer from an already created mesh and slightly rework. (depending on the hair mesh ofc) What would cause the price to be 10x? I would love this idea to go through but not at this price unfortunately.
Sorry @Doki but after a lot of feedback written here, I agree with @Yannakis @OnTheRise about price and I highly support tendering idea from @CheddarQueso.
I was thinking to avoid writing my detailed feedback on your grant proposal, but.
Original idea of wearables and hairs reworks comes from my (rejected) proposal (because of idea with monthly default wearables, and because Shibu told me that another Foundation member was already working on models reworks) published back in March 2023 ([DAO:53c313f] Long-Term Standard Wearables Production)
As wearables creator and owner of original reworks idea (if I can say so), I would like to participate in challenge through tendering proccess published by Foundation.
Tendering is clear, transparent for community, and great challenge for all Decentraland wearable creators.
What about your pricing, here is good example. DAPPCRAFT charged 25k$ for whole 3d team that doing DAO HQ 3D models (my 3d team made more than 150+ unique high quality models with baked textures for this scene) with that price.
For Pick’n’Mix grant you asked 25k$, and it provides high quality assets for whole avatars (NPC). With different color variations. But I have some questions regards pricing for that grant too. Only 5 thematical collections with RGB solution, lack of good npc animations.
I agree once again with @Yannakis. Hair weight painting with smooth gradient transitions can be done in few minutes/seconds with addons like Voxel Heat Diffuse Skinning and Lazy Weight Painting or copied from another prepared hair. All solutions eats no more than 5-10 minutes.
Example of final hairs that I made in less than 2 hours (Geometry Nodes + Curves and all the rest required steps for final model) (match all Decentraland limitations). Just will leave it here.
They cost me less than 150$ each on my secondary (almost full-time) job. I do similar hairs almost every day here for that price with different color variations.
Whole collection costs me around 800$ - 1000$ (collection includes unique hair, suit, feet for both genders, cloak on back of avatar + unique pet with 3 animations, 7 additional color variations for all pieces).
Here is example of whole collection with pet and stuff that I made for 800$ - 1000$. I do this collections almost every week. For a whole year of hard work and creating such collections with animated pets and stuff, My salary is less than 25k$ per year on my secondary job. Each collections eats around 30-40 working hours (~5 hours every day/night including weekends).
FYI @Canessa @Manadaiquiri pay attention to my numbers and amount of money that Doki got for Pick’n’Mix and wants for hairs grant.
Just wanted to leave more realistic feedback here to support community members @CheddarQueso, @Yannakis and @OnTheRise.
Don’t take it as hate from my side @Doki, I like and support you as creator, you have brilliant ideas and models, but I also see other community members and their feedback which I want to support too. Sorry once again.
Price gouging, almost all grants do it because they know they can get away with it, it’s an absolute shame.
