[DAO:465bcf2] New Wearable Category: Hands

[dao]

by 0x56469159d91eb810dce34dd13ec4ed8194bca7be (NikkiFuego)

Linked Pre-Proposal

New Wearable Category: Hands (Resubmission)

Summary

This draft aims to introduce a new and highly desired Wearable Category: Hands! This has been a category that the community has been talking about for nearly a year now. It passed the Poll stage with 192 Yes votes and 1.6M VP.

Abstract

Currently, we see the wearable accessory categories flooded with hand accessories. This dilutes the accessory categories greatly and overall doesn’t feel like good quality of the use of those categories. This draft’s goal is to solve that problem by introducing a proper category for hand accessories/items.

Motivation

The addition of a Hands wearable submission category to the platform would be important for a number of reasons. First, it would allow content creators to submit and showcase their creations. Currently, creators must fit their hand-related wearables into existing categories, which may not always accurately reflect the true nature of their work. By adding a new category, creators would have a more specific and relevant place to showcase their creations, which could lead to increased visibility and potential sales.

Second, a Hands wearable submission category would also allow the Decentraland platform to accommodate a wider range of wearables and potentially attract a larger user base. This could be particularly beneficial for creators who are working on innovative or niche wearables that do not fit neatly into existing categories. By giving these creators a dedicated space to showcase their work, Decentraland could become a more diverse and dynamic platform.

The addition of a new wearable submission category would be an important step for the Decentraland platform, as it would allow for greater creativity and innovation from content creators and a more immersive and dynamic experience for users. This also allows for a revenue generation opportunity. The amount of wearables that can be made for a Hands category is endless.

Specification

We would propose the following parameters/guidelines for curation on the new category:

• 1500 tri limit (Identical to Feet Category)
• 2 materials 2 textures limit. All textures must be square. (Identical to Feet Category)
• All pre-existing Upper-Body wearables should automatically hide the Hands category.
• Creators should be able to update their existing Upper-Body wearables as needed to accommodate this change.
• Skins should automatically hide Hand Category. (Identical to Feet Category)
• A mass email should be sent to every wearable creator (they have to submit an email upon publishing) to let them know about the change so that creators who have pre-existing wearables that include hand accessories (IE: Tiara, Top-Head, Earring, etc) can update their wearable as needed.

We would propose the following changes to the Wearable Docs:

• The Decentraland Avatar System: Body Shape, Head, Upper Body, Hands, Lower Body, Feet.
• Let’s see those hands! All gloves, rings, handbags, weapons, etc. are applied to the hands, not the upper body.
  
• Swapping out a new Upper Body image:
  
• Update in Wearable Categories section under Skin: Skin: Replaces the entire avatar (head, upper body, hands, lower body and feet except accessories). As well as adding Hands to the list of Categories below Upper_Body.
• New image for Upper Body, Lower Body, and Feet section:
  
• New addition to the Skin Weighting list: Right Hand and Left Hand Bones: for the hand and upper body’s intersecting vertices.

As well as adding a new Backpack Icon in the wearable section:

Provided Resources

• Doki and I have curated a Blender resource file that comes preloaded with examples of new avatars with the Hands separated and caps filled. Ideally replacing the currently pre-existing open source file for avatars.
• Doki and I would also like to volunteer our 3D Modeling services for free to the foundation to help curate default hand wearables for the community to introduce the new category.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the addition of a new Hands wearable submission category to the Decentraland platform would benefit the community, the platform, and wearable creators in various ways. For the community, it would provide a more immersive and dynamic experience as they would have access to a wider range of wearables to choose from. For the Decentraland platform, it could lead to increased revenue through publishing fees and higher levels of user engagement. And for wearable creators, it would provide a more specific and relevant place to showcase their Hand creations, which could lead to increased visibility and potential sales. All in all, the addition of a new Hands wearable submission category would be a positive development for all parties involved and would help to create a more vibrant and dynamic virtual world.

Vote on this proposal on the Decentraland DAO

View this proposal on Snapshot

[Yannakis]

Do you think UB tris should also be reduced to 1000 since we’re taking away over 500 tris that were used for the hands? Optimization is a major factor for onboarding players and DCL is already heavy and for many unplayable. Adding an additional 1500 tris to each character may not sound like a lot but will heavily reduce performance in a crowded area. For example, if you consider that some scenes have over 100 concurrent players that would be 150000 tris just for hands.

[NikkiFuego]

Hey @Yannakis thanks for chiming in. We are treating this like the already pre-existing categories. When thinking about the longevity of the platform, stability eventually will not be an issue. We believe if we wait until the day that the servers are perfect and introduce the category there will be even more dilution to the existing accessory categories with the excessive hand wearables being made. We are looking at this from an art quality perspective and the integrity of the wearable system. If the explorer team feels that the 1,000 tri limit is more appropriate, then we would consider it. We feel like there are way more possibilities with hand wearables than feet as the feet are a major component in the way the avatar navigates the world. Whereas hands can include many different features. If feet have more tri limit than hands it doesn’t really make sense. We chose 1,500 because it is consistent with the pre-existing wearable categories. We looked at the base for every default wearable category and they have a base of 500-700 tris and a limit of 1,500.

Additionally, the stability of the platform shouldn’t be a barrier to the expansion of the economy. I would argue that a lot of the stability issues go far beyond tri counts for wearables. There are many factors that play a role in the stability of the catalyst servers and whatnot.

[Yannakis]

Game performance because of excessive tris has nothing to do with server stability of catalyst servers etc its 100% users hardware. Also I don’t think its fair to compare feet category to hands as shoes are one of the main wearables but hands would fall under the “accessories” category which all have 500 tris. Its not a bad idea but would add unneeded complexity to existing wearables and make the game a lot heavier than it already is not to mention that the possibility of having a character with that amount of tris on VR or mobile is non existent.

Nonetheless my comment was to try and make up for the excessive tris use since the hands which were included in the UB would now be a separate wearable Id think it’d only be fair to reduce them from the initial UB tris limit. Expansion of economy and stability of platform won’t make a game that’s not optimized run on a medium spec computer…

This is a Performance Ranking for VRChat on Oculus Quest for some reference

[NikkiFuego]

@Yannakis sorry I misread your original comment. I thought you were saying hands should be 1,000 tris. I realize what UB means now. We are totally open to the idea of updating the Upper Body tri limit to 1,000 due to the fact that hands won’t be included in Upper Body meshes. But that also adds to the development and integration. Which is more resistance.

However, I would like to push back on the tri perspective. Because if that chart is true (which I think is just recommendations, not actual governances) then DCL already exceeds that “Poor” label. I just went in-game and equipped the following:

• Hair 1500
• Upper Body 1500
• Lower Body 1500
• Feet 1500
• Eyewear 500
• Earring 500
• Tiara 500
• Mask 500
• Doki Head 1500
• Top-Head 500
• Main slots = 7,500
• Accessories = 2,500
• Total = 10,000

And we know that there are dozens and dozens of wearables that are approved slightly over the tri limit when necessary so this 10k could be larger. Also, some wearables get approved that don’t hide the appropriate categories so therefore the 10k could be even larger. So using that logic, any event that has 100 concurrent users would see 1,000,000 tris at one time or more. Hands wouldn’t be a direct 1500 increase as all pre-existing upper bodies have hands included. Hand wearables will still include hand meshes which are 500~ tris (I checked). So it would only be an increase of roughly 1,000 tris per hand wearable. If there are 100 concurrent users that is only a 10% (100k) increase in tris to what exists now.

[Yannakis]

@NikkiFuego

Hands wouldn’t be a direct 1500 increase as all pre-existing upper bodies have hands included

Yeah that’s why I recommended to reduce the UB limit to 1000 if we’re gonna have a hands category or else it will indeed be a direct 1500 tris increase.

@NikkiFuego

which I think is just recommendations, not actual governances

Not sure what you mean “governances” but its a ranking system in VRchat so that players can hide users in “poor” avatars so they don’t ruin their experience in-game

The point is that adding categories, hence tris, will heavily impact performance. There’s a reason tris limits were implemented and introducing new categories with more tris than needed is not the best… I’ve already seen multiple people not being able to play just because the game was too heavy for their computer to run in crowded areas. Making it heavier will only make things worse…
Also 100k is a LOT especially if you consider that’s only hands…
You’re correct on the 10k tris total that exists at the moment which is why I’m saying Let’s not push it even more

[Yannakis]

Quick google search on character tris count recommendation. (Documentation from Unity 3D)

[NikkiFuego]

As I said, if the explorer team or other teams aiding in the integration of this new category agree that tris should be lower for Upper Body and are willing to include that with this integration, we will listen. But this can all be speculation as neither you or I are a part of the foundation’s development team. A 10% increase is pretty reasonable for an entirely new wearable category that will breed a ton of innovation and revenue.

Also to clarify the “governances” I was just pointing out that those numbers did not prevent someone from publishing. They have separate parameters for publishing.

Would be cool if DCL users had that VRChat functionality of limiting how many tris they register. But I’m pretty sure Islands help with this rendering pressure too.

[Morph]

I love the idea, I wish there was more options for hands so that I could have robot arms with multiple outfits.

However the concept that ‘All pre-existing Upper-Body wearables should automatically hide the Hands category’ - this feels like a huge change that would essentially break a large amount of the existing wearables. I’m sure we have lost many artists or account details that manage these wearables.

Are we able to add this category, but not remove existing hand slot models? Or only do so if a hand slot wearable is equipped? Having a category for hands/gloves that either covers the hands model, or outright replaces it, while not breaking the existing DCL catalogue seems like a good compromise to make it backwards compatible.

EDIT: Additionally, adding a gloves slot that goes on top of existing hands models would be much simpler from a technical perspective, adding a 500/1000 tri slot to the hands specifically for this would be much simpler while still enabling the functionality, while complete avatar hand replacements would cover the existing hands.

I agree that while DCL characters are high in Tri’s currently, a 5/10% increase for a proper hands wearable slot (similar to how we have shoes/feet slot already) is a worthwhile increase, especially if not everyone has complex hand items equipped. Eventually, optimizations will be less relevant as hardware scales, and alternative technical solutions can be formed as part of the avatar pipeline to optimize baking textures or removing the default hand models etc…

[NikkiFuego]

Hey @Morph great points and thanks for chiming in.

Sorry for the confusion. Maybe I’m using the wrong verbiage when I say “hide” Hands.

The idea of having the upper bodies automatically hide hands is so that they don’t overlap. It wouldn’t “remove” any hands from any existing wearables. It would just mean any Upper Body published after integration, would not include hands in the mesh. The hands will still exist on the pre-existing Upper Body wearables. Players will not be able to equip a new Hands Wearable with pre-existing Upper Body wearables. This would allow creators to keep the integrity of their original design and have the choice of updating to accommodate the new category. Otherwise, there will be many overlapping hand accessories.

It’s worth noting too that none of this is binding yet and even after the “binding” stage there will likely be some shifts in the integration process once the Render and SDK teams are able to provide their insight.

[Morph]

Ah! Thank you for clarifying - voting yes!

[dao]

New Wearable Category: Hands

This proposal is now in status: PASSED.

Voting Results:

• Yes 100% 7,158,852 VP (220 votes)
• No 0% 0 VP (4 votes)

[TheCryptoTengu]

Looking forward to seeing this in the proposal phase.